Harris plans to use ABC debate time even if Trump doesn’t show up

[u/Spare_Substance5003]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/03/politics/kamala-harris-donald-trump-debate/index.html

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[u/hskfmn]

Trump is now challenging Harris to a September 4th "debate" on FOX. With the added conditions that there will be no fact-checking, and a full live studio audience, because he's addicted to attention and adulation.

As of now, Harris has not agreed to anything other than the already agreed upon September 10th debate on ABC (which Trump himself subsequently backed out of).

EDIT: Response from the Harris team:

“Donald Trump is running scared and trying to back out of the debate he already agreed to and running straight to Fox News to bail him out. He needs to stop playing games and show up to the debate he already committed to on Sept 10. The Vice President will be there one way or the other to take the opportunity to speak to a prime time national audience.

We’re happy to discuss further debates after the one both campaigns have already agreed to. Mr. Anytime, anywhere, anyplace should have no problem with that unless he’s too scared to show up on the 10th.”

[u/Rich-Pomegranate1679 → u/hskfmn]

It is absolutely delicious that she is calling him out for being scared. This is the way we've needed Democrats to treat the GOP for a long time now.

[u/8anbys → u/Rich-Pomegranate1679]

Seriously, decorum had a time - now isn't it.

[u/12OClockNews → u/8anbys]

It's idiotic to try and play nice with a fascist trying to become the first dictator of the US.

[u/simsimulation → u/12OClockNews]

History shows that placating fascists doesn’t work. Glad the kid gloves are off. Democrats are smarter, wealthier, and more numerous. Let’s act like it.

[u/HowManyBatteries → u/simsimulation]

And we're not as weird!

[u/MagisterFlorus → u/HowManyBatteries]

I mean they're weird but not in an incestual kind of way.

[u/PossessedToSkate → u/12OClockNews]

Frankly, it's well past time to also drop decorum with his followers. They have had nearly a decade to wipe the Fox News goo from their eyes, and have had millions of people trying to help them do so. They have stubbornly and staunchly refused, preferring instead to repeatedly double down on awfulness. Indeed, they have embraced it.

I, for one, look forward to the day they slip beneath the waves of their own hate and sink to the bottom where they belong.

[u/AbacusWizard → u/PossessedToSkate]

Sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice, and should be treated as such.

[u/whofearsthenight → u/AbacusWizard]

It's also the level of willfull-ness about it. tbh I just consider that malice. If you're presented with a mountain of evidence that someone is not only incompetent and only wants power to save himself from the consequences of his many crimes, that moves on from being ignorant.

[u/JT_Cullen84 → u/8anbys]

The race with John McCain and Obama was a time for decorum. Both men respected the other, they just differed on their views.

Trump has shown no respect for anyone except putin. So he doesn't get any respect

[u/thebestzach86 → u/JT_Cullen84]

Yeah calling McCain a loser was pathetic. He has no respect. Fuck him, little brat, he is.

[u/keekeeVogel → u/thebestzach86]

That’s the part of Trump that I absolutely despise the most. He did call Prisoners of War losers for getting caught, but it didn’t stop there, he actually called them losers for dying tragically. His denying it just adds to the depths of disrespect he has for the lives lost. McCain didn’t use his connections and leave his men behind, he fucking stayed. How do people view Trump as a patriot that bleeds red, white and blue? Using those words, he might as well be pissing on the fallen soldiers dead bodies. He’s a baby brat that needs to be stomped on.

[u/SophiasPenis → u/keekeeVogel]

Agreed. Anyone who has served with honor that votes for Trump is clinically insane.

[u/TheWeirdTalesPodcast → u/JT_Cullen84]

Remember the time McCain was doing a town hall and a woman asked in tears about Obama, spouting some sort of Fox News talking point about Obama being a child sacrificing satanist or something like that?

And McCain spoke very softly, and respectfully, and actually frickin' defended Obama, correcting the lady and talking about that while he doesn't agree with all of Obama's stances, he's still a good person and all that?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

[u/octopornopus → u/TheWeirdTalesPodcast]

Pepperidge Farm was close:

“I can’t trust Obama. I have read about him, and he’s not, um, he’s an Arab,” a woman said to McCain at a town hall meeting in Lakeville, Minnesota in October 2008.

McCain grabbed the microphone from her, cutting her off. “No, ma’am,” he said. “He’s a decent family man [and] citizen that just I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what the campaign’s all about. He’s not [an Arab].”

[u/TheWeirdTalesPodcast → u/octopornopus]

I'm surprised I got that close. This last eight years has been the longest century.

[u/Schuben → u/JT_Cullen84]

Don't forget Kim Jong Un. He loves that pudgy bastard like a North Korean dictator loves cake.

[u/AxelShoes → u/8anbys]

I don't find anything particularly undecorous about statements like this. Republicans have been preaching violent totalitarianism, overt oppression and corruption, virulent lies as truth, and other over-the-top terrifying bullshit, for years now. Calling a coward a coward in a rather polite way for reneging on his commitment hardly compares.

[u/jabulaya → u/AxelShoes]

Man thats what I was thinking. This is just throwing the bullshit back in his face.

[u/kinyutaka → u/[deleted]]

I doubt that Fox will turn away from the "debate" for anything short of an announcement that Biden is stepping down as President.

[u/Telsak → u/[deleted]]

Announce her VP pick in the middle of his fox "debate".

[u/klparrot → u/Telsak]

It has to be decided this month for ballot deadlines.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rich-Pomegranate1679]

This is the way we've needed Democrats to treat the GOP for a long time now.

Gen X don't fuck around.

[u/IrascibleOcelot → u/[deleted]]

We’ll claim her. She’s totally one of us.

[u/Bonafideago → u/[deleted]]

Fuck around and find out is kinda our mantra.

Also, fuck you I won't do what you tell me.

[u/appleparkfive → u/Rich-Pomegranate1679]

Seriously. No high road.

I feel like Hillary would have just agreed to change in it in 2016

[u/theFrownTownClown → u/appleparkfive]

"When they go low, kick them in the teeth."

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/Rich-Pomegranate1679]

They finally have people under the age of 45 running things

[u/Beneficial-Recipe-10 → u/DarkwingDuckHunt]

Right?! Lol they said “he’s running scared”

[u/BeachyMagic → u/hskfmn]

I hope she doesn’t agree to it. He wants to change the venue to his liking and the rules? He wants to look as if he is controlling everything and she can’t give him the satisfaction. He is a small loser and I pray she beats him.

[u/TheHibernian → u/BeachyMagic]

Yeah, I think if she goes to the Fox "Debate" he will have coached supporters to cheer at everything he says while also booing Kalama during her entire response.  Also, the Fox Mediator will likely just throw softballs at Trump while asking Kamala trap questions.

[u/BeachyMagic → u/TheHibernian]

Very true.

[u/TbonerT → u/BeachyMagic]

The funny thing is r/Conservative has multiple headlines saying Trump agrees to a debate on Fox. Fortunately, many of the comments from flaired conservatives are pointing out that it means nothing unless Harris also agrees and they are also wondering who Trump agrees with.

[u/Wristlojackimator → u/hskfmn]

She can debate a photo of Trump’s mugshot. It will be just as effective at answering questions as the real Trump.

[u/throwaway177251 → u/Wristlojackimator]

Or an empty chair.

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/hskfmn]

WE have people who grew up on using the internet finally running a campaign

[u/kevinwilly → u/DarkwingDuckHunt]

You can 100% tell there's millennials on her campaign. After the first two days it was obvious. They know how to troll the shit out of him and it's working.

[u/Babybutt123 → u/kevinwilly]

Gen z, too. The oldest gen z are 28.

[u/Extropian → u/Babybutt123]

With our powers combined, we are Captain Meme-it

[u/DerpsMcGee → u/Extropian]

It's not much, but it's honest work.

[u/steavor → u/hskfmn]

Mr. Anytime, anywhere, anyplace

Hell yeah! None of that snivelling "Mr. President" bullshit.

Keep prodding him, his outbursts in response are going to make the momentum swing in Harris' way by themselves.

[u/KlatuuBarradaNicto → u/hskfmn]

He’s really stuck on no fact-checking for every event he participates in. All of his cult should take notice- his whole schtick is nothing but lies.

[u/PDXGuy33333 → u/hskfmn]

She should also call out Trump and Fox News for having the temerity to try to tell the sitting Vice President of The United States of America when and where to make herself available.

Edit: And she can add that he's nuts if he thinks this Vice President is going to take orders from him when even his own Vice President refused to.

[u/ihaxr → u/PDXGuy33333]

Maya Rudolph should just show up to the FOX debate in character instead and berate Trump the entire time about how he and Epstein were best friends and would sexually assault children.

[u/Smoaktreess → u/ihaxr]

Trump wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between Maya Rudolph and Kamala Harris anyway. Lol

[u/FuggyGlasses → u/hskfmn]

🤣 🤣 🤣  "Mr. ANYTIME'" LMAO 

[u/IllButterscotch5964 → u/hskfmn]

Keep calling his coward ass out. He’s such a fucking scared little man.

[u/Galphanore]

This is perfect. If Trump wants to hold a weird little conference to celebrate himself on the channel that worships him and pretend it's a debate then let him. Don't take it seriously, he's just a weirdo who is afraid to follow through with his prior agreement to debate anyone who is polling at least 15% on ABC.

It was never an agreement to debate Biden. Don't let Trump pretend otherwise. If RFK was polling at 15% he would be there too.

[u/NaughtyPinata → u/Galphanore]

This is such a good point, every conservative point right now seems to be "Trump agreed to debate Biden, not kamala"

This really takes the wind out of their sails. Or, it would if they were capable of rational thought, but then they wouldn't be supporting a pedophile, felon, rapist, failed businessman, traitor, etc

[u/Galphanore → u/NaughtyPinata]

And to be even more clear about it, these have been the rules for qualifying for presidential debates since 2000. For 24 years.

[u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

The fact is, respecting an existing obligation is the norm. Following through on that obligation is the normal thing to do.

Trump is proud of the fact that he is not normal. We have a word for that but it escapes me at the moment.

Edit: And here's another thought: If Trump can't step up to Harris in a pre-arranged debate, how are we supposed to believe he'll step up to Putin if he decides to invade another country. Or if Kim Jong-Un threatens to nuke South Korea again. Or another crisis like Covid for that matter. Real leaders don't get to pick their circumstances. They either step up or step aside. They don't try to weasel out of the situation at hand and make excuses.

Biden showed up to debate even knowing he was sick and that it would reflect poorly on him. He did it anyway. He didn't complain about circumstances or try to avoid them. And when it became apparent he wasn't best suited to represent his party in November, he stepped aside in favor of someone who is.

It's deeply weird to me that people want to make excuses for a man who's so obviously not up to exactly the sort of Challenge the Presidency entails.

[u/sBitSwapper → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

Yeah it’s fucking weird to cancel an existing obligation by agreeing to a different one last minute

[u/HagbardCelineHMSH → u/sBitSwapper]

The fact is, it's a weird power game.

Trump has been known for playing weird power games since the 80's.

If he wants to keep playing them? I guess we can't stop that but I see no reason why people should take exception to us calling him out for them. His games are weird and he's weird for playing them.

[u/copperwatt → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

Yup, either Harris or someone her team must have deep experience dealing with a clinical Narcissist. Because she is nailing it.

[u/CommunicationNo3650 → u/copperwatt]

She’s playing hardball, it’s brilliant showing up to a debate, guaranteed airtime, if he doesn’t show she can use the time to speak to the masses.

[u/Peacefulzealot → u/CommunicationNo3650]

Playing Hardball is what I want to see. I want to see someone refuse to play his game.

This is exactly what I want out of my next president.

[u/RemBren03 → u/Peacefulzealot]

Right? They say no one will take her seriously. Him changing the rules and then crying about it is exactly what hostile foreign nations do to us. In my mind it’s a win win.

[u/1369ic → u/Peacefulzealot]

We need to show his wannabe heirs that this crap won't work. Otherwise, Vance, MTG, Boebert, or somebody like them will keep trying it.

[u/ZacZupAttack → u/Peacefulzealot]

It's what I'd do. Don't play his game. Don't get in the mud with him

[u/Vstarpappy → u/CommunicationNo3650]

It would be cool to see the question and answer session for her without the buffoon present.

[u/SBRH33 → u/Vstarpappy]

Just have an empty folding chair sitting on stage with a microphone in front of it.

Pan over to the empty chair every time when it's Chumps turn to answer a question.

Let the nation see that empty chair.

[u/DeltaVega_7957 → u/SBRH33]

Vice President Harris should take a tip from the British, i.e, Liz Truss:

For the September 10, 2024 debate, Vice President Harris should have a large orange, with a toupee glued on top of it to stand in for Donald Trump at the other lectern…and debate it.😐

[u/tawzerozero → u/DeltaVega_7957]

I wonder if there are any varietals of lettuce that are orange...

[u/Sure-Break3413 → u/SBRH33]

Put a sign on his podium that say “I still don’t accept the 2020 elections, and will not accept the 2024 election unless I win” It will save a lot of time to not listen to his babbling lies, threats and name calling. Also the room won’t smell like an outhouse.

[u/Vstarpappy → u/SBRH33]

Agreed. 🤣

[u/Jumpy_MashedPotato → u/Vstarpappy]

I want them to put the dumbest looking cardboard cutout they can find there and just pan to it silently and act like he's actually there.

"You have 2 minutes"

🗿

"30 seconds left Mr trump"

🗿

[u/Vstarpappy → u/Jumpy_MashedPotato]

That would be funny as shit.

[u/CommunicationNo3650 → u/CommunicationNo3650]

Trump would whine the Clerks quote, “I’m not even suppose to be here today”

[u/SKDI_0224 → u/copperwatt]

Yeah, I buy it. She did say she “know Donald Trump’s type”

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/copperwatt]

I'd be genuinely unsurprised to find out they hired on a psychologist of some sort for that exact reason, but frankly I have a mother with (much more mild) NPD and I have been screaming these strategies into the void since 2016 so it could legit just be someone's kid.

[u/Glittering-Sea-6677 → u/copperwatt]

I think Harris is the one who has the experience. You can tell by her whole attitude that every move starts with her.

[u/mechanicalcontrols → u/copperwatt]

If it's what you say, I love it. Especially later in the summer.

[u/even_less_resistance → u/copperwatt]

I’ve been, like, not a big fan of her prosecutor background because of the cop implications but honestly I think especially in situations like these that background is extremely helpful. Like, would you let a loser defendant just reschedule a hearing because they wanted? Hell no lol

[u/Key_Amazed → u/even_less_resistance]

I get that this is reddit and everything related to the law is the ultimate evil but like...you kinda need a system, and people who run that system, to put murderers and rapists and the like away from society. I just don't get the idea that her being a prosecutor is an automatic mark against her. Especially when she's running against a criminal.

[u/elusivemoniker → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

He had Ivanna, the mother of three of his children, buried near his golf course in New Jersey. It's not landscaped ,I have seen roadside memorials on the side of the highway with more reverence to the deceased. That's so fucking weird.

[u/WildBad7298 → u/elusivemoniker]

I'd bet money that there are classified documents he didn't want to give back in that coffin.

[u/schnitzelfeffer → u/WildBad7298]

Also gets a tax break for it being a cementary probably. Two for one. She just had to fall down the steps.

[u/Guest09717 → u/elusivemoniker]

Cemeteries get tax breaks. I guarantee that he cares more about that than he did about her.

[u/pixelife → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

His silly handshake alone shows it all.

[u/FrostyD7 → u/pixelife]

It's funny that conservatives think our allies could possibly like Trump when they had to learn how to avoid being jerked around by a smelly bully every time they met him.

[u/uhhmazin321 → u/sBitSwapper]

The thing is, I don’t think he agreed to a new one, I think he completely made it up.

In the initial story I read about the Fox News debate, fox declined to comment. If everything was finalized and ready to go, why wouldn’t they say so?

Maybe I’m reading too much into it but that just struck me as really odd.

[u/Drop_Disculpa → u/uhhmazin321]

If you think that Trump completely made something up, and that no credible information can be found to support his claim- the odds are overwhelming that you are correct. You are making an inference based on existing data, it is not you that is making a leap of faith here.

[u/ddubyeah → u/sBitSwapper]

Only he has agreed with himself to do a fox hosted one. Was literally not a part of the conversation.

[u/copperwatt → u/ddubyeah]

"Ok, ok fine. I agree to the thing that's better for me that I just made up. Happy now?"

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/copperwatt]

Literal toddler behavior. It'd be cute if he were 3 feet tall and not a fascist.

[u/Magnetic_Eel → u/copperwatt]

I just agreed with my boss about me getting a raise! He doesn’t know it yet, but I definitely agree

[u/Shferitz → u/ddubyeah]

Fox hosted with a stadium full of trump supporters. 🙄

[u/Far-Elk2540 → u/ddubyeah]

Right? How does he even say “I agree…” Isnt that one-sided? Shouldn’t he be saying “I challenge my opponent to a debate…”

[u/phech → u/sBitSwapper]

I’m gonna start my own debate, with blackjack and hookers!

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/phech]

His casino went bankrupt and hookers (I know Stormi isn't a hooker but yk) keep beating his ass in court.

[u/raidmytombBB → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

Trump will just argue that Dems changed their mind w the nominee so why can't he change his mind w the debate. And that changing the dem nominee is a huggge deal and undermining the public. Ignore the fact that we haven't had the DNC yet, lol.

[u/kamandamd128 → u/raidmytombBB]

Tim Walz’s logical and fact-based argument to Fox News the other week is that it’s the dems’ decision who they want to nominate. He said something like “You chose Trump and that’s fine. He’s yours. Have at it. But mind your own business.”

[u/Federal_Drummer7105 → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

Strange? Must be strange. Or old and strange. That’s it.

[u/Proof_Object_6358 → u/Federal_Drummer7105]

Or old, strange and orange!

[u/Itool4looti → u/HagbardCelineHMSH]

That’s weird that you can’t remember that word.

[u/HagbardCelineHMSH → u/Itool4looti]

I'm guilty as charged.

[u/Former-Lab-9451]

Trump "agreeing" to a Fox News debate, a week before the ABC one basically confirms he's not going to show up. He wants the picture of an empty podium first and to limit the damage he'll receive for ducking a debate on a fairer network.

But ABC is far more reaching than Fox News. Trump can go on Fox News any time he wants to do the townhall that the Sept 4 "debate" is going to turn into. The reason he won't is that if he doesn't limit the appearances/speeches, everything will turn into something similar to what happened at the NABJ conference.

[u/ezabland → u/Former-Lab-9451]

Fox won’t be allowed to call it a debate. It isn’t sanctioned by the RNC or DNC

[u/Tobimacoss → u/ezabland]

Good.  Debates should be aired on all channels anyways and run by neutral presidential commission.  

[u/BoxBeast1961_ → u/Tobimacoss]

Trump doesn’t want neutral

[u/DeltaVega_7957 → u/BoxBeast1961_]

Trump also doesn’t want facts.😡

[u/Aggressive-Welder-62 → u/DeltaVega_7957]

But he does want genital warts…I assume.

[u/Jackinapox → u/Aggressive-Welder-62]

..and his daughter...I assume.

[u/fantastic_watermelon → u/Tobimacoss]

And live fact-checked by that commission

[u/RetailBuck → u/fantastic_watermelon]

Fact checking is a lengthy and often hazy process. It's not really feasible to do it live and the people that need to see it the most won't follow up. Debates with Trump are basically pointless and not really debates. He lies constantly and doesn't address the questions being asked.

[u/HowManyBatteries → u/RetailBuck]

They could easily just have 15-20 fact-checking topics lined up, just topics he would most likely touch on (like when he says "I didn't say that" or "that never happened, just have it on a reel and be like "ok, that's #6, roll it"). He definitely has a rotating number of things he consistently lies about all the freaking time.

[u/Gommel_Nox → u/Tobimacoss]

They should also have a team of independent fact checkers running down every single statement.

[u/Sea_Association2170 → u/Tobimacoss]

Trump only wants to debate with his chosen moderators and venue. He'll probably even restrict who can attend for an audience.

[u/itistemp → u/ezabland]

Irrespective, Fox is providing him an avenue to back out of the previously agreed debate. Trump is breaking a contract. This may be normal for him. However, the rest of the society operate this way. His 'base' may love him for a being rule and norm-breaker. The rest of us need to hold him accountable.

[u/Rich-Pomegranate1679 → u/ezabland]

Since when has the truth mattered to Fox?

[u/metisdesigns → u/Rich-Pomegranate1679]

In fairness, it's quite true that any reasonable person would not believe much of what is on Fox, just as Fox argued in federal court.

[u/Nwcray → u/metisdesigns]

That’s their version of ‘fair and balanced’.

“Made-up and biased” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it

[u/Rosemarys_Gayby → u/ezabland]

Doesn’t stop Trump and his weirdos from calling it that.

[u/No-Fisherman6302 → u/ezabland]

Fox isn’t a real news network, yet they still say they are. They’ll call it whatever they want

[u/Beastw1ck → u/Former-Lab-9451]

It’s not just the network. The campaigns agree on the terms of the debate. Who gets to talk and for how long. Will there be an audience or not. Who moderates. They negotiate and come to an agreement. Trump’s move here was to insist on the most advantageous possible situation for him. Fox News plus a live audience of his supporters to basically have a rally and not let Harris get a word in edge-wise. He’s an absurd bully but hey. That’s what like 40% of the country wants I guess.

[u/SenorSplashdamage → u/Beastw1ck]

Yeah. His first move here is to create a narrative for his base that the Dems will only debate on “liberal” channels and won’t agree to a “fair and balanced” channel they trust.

But second, he knows Harris is gonna get a free debate time to herself which will be its own town hall when he doesn’t show up. He’s insanely jealous of air time, so he wants Fox to give him a free couple hours to do his own rally like you’re saying. Fox won’t turn it down cause it’s only a win for them either way. It’s one of his typical moves. Will have to see if the media and the public call him out critically for it or if they just go along with it. The way a lot of headlines are saying “Trump agrees to debate…” doesn’t look promising for the typical news media getting this right.

[u/YourNightNurse → u/Former-Lab-9451]

Harris should announce she's going to do a debate on MSNBC like August 29th or something. Just keep moving it up with various networks and challenging him to show 😂

[u/jaysrule24 → u/YourNightNurse]

I'm looking forward to their August 9th debate on the Food Network

[u/Cael26 → u/jaysrule24]

I would love to see Donald Trump try to cook a better meal than Kamala

[u/Curiouso_Giorgio → u/Cael26]

That would actually be a pretty fun idea for a presidential competition, especially if they want to appear normal and relatable - candidates have to do a bunch of real life stuff in 2 hours.

First up, the shopping list. They're given a number of common items and they have to guess the price - a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a bag of flour, a can of beans, a 12 pack of toilet paper etc. The price index could be the median of all the prices seen in Walmart or something.

Next, give them a normal kitchen set up with random typical kitchen stuff and they have 30 minutes to whip something up to eat and then the host takes it out to several passers-by on the street and asks them to taste it and give an opinion without telling them who cooked it.

Following that, they have to wash the dishes.

Next, they have to spend 15 minutes with 5 toddlers. They can interact with them however they want. At the end, the toddlers say what they think of the candidates.

After that, they're asked to name 3 significant global or national events that happened over the past week that appeared in the news, not including anything directly related to Congress or politics.

[u/Pvt_Hudson_ → u/Curiouso_Giorgio]

Honest to God this is the most brilliant format imaginable.

Have the candidates run a gauntlet of normal people shit.

[u/Rapithree → u/Cael26]

He'd show up with a table of big macs

[u/EncanisUnbound → u/Rapithree]

Steamed hams, as Principal Skinner would say

[u/BellowsHikes → u/EncanisUnbound]

You call them hamburders despite the fact that they are clearly hamburgers.

[u/Gr8NonSequitur → u/jaysrule24]

It'll be hard following the high bar set during the August 7th debate on Cartoon Network.

[u/EShaver102 → u/jaysrule24]

Moderated by Gordon Ramsey. Loser of the debate gets the ‘idiot sandwich’ treatment.

[u/JohnDivney → u/Former-Lab-9451]

And Trump, left alone, would just 'play the hits' everyone has heard nearly one billion times from him already.

Harris is a question mark for a lot of people who will flood whatever debate she attends, giving Trump more attention he deserves by proxy.

So Trump has only to lose from ducking a debate that would garner him a larger audience than Fox, as you say.

In fact, going further, the only way anyone sees Trump as 'winning' anything is by his bullying, not the merit of his ideas or policies. He would also be depriving him the auto-win amongst people who tune in to see who is the best bully.

[u/Cephalopirate → u/JohnDivney]

Is it just me, or is Trump one of the most boring public speakers to ever live?

I’m always like, “yeah yeah, I’ve heard that before… and that… and that…”

[u/RetroBowser → u/Cephalopirate]

It’s been word salad for decades.

[u/mydogislife_ → u/Former-Lab-9451]

This was my thought too. Only the people already voting for him pay attention to Fox News. I don’t know a single reasonable person that watches that shit.

[u/zipzzo → u/mydogislife_]

You'd be surprised. Fox news is like the default channel inside of a lot of businesses and the white noise in a lot of family homes of non-politically engaged people.

[u/BEX436 → u/zipzzo]

Very much "white noise..."

[u/EatAPeach2023 → u/zipzzo]

I don't think Trump is converting many undecided voters with a Fox News solo appearance where he will rehash all his grievances and call people names

Kamala will get votes appearing at the debate speaking reasonably about policies with an empty chair sitting there where Donald was supposed to be.

[u/[deleted] → u/EatAPeach2023]

Especially when Harris spends a month going "idk what he's on about we had a debate agreed on and scheduled for Sept 10th if he wants to run to his safe space he can"

[u/Daredevil_Forever → u/zipzzo]

Also the default channel in a lot of military bases.

[u/DiabloPixel → u/Daredevil_Forever]

Which really fucking sucks tbh, so stupid and yet unsurprising.

[u/dejus → u/zipzzo]

My mom and step dad hated trump and we’re democrats but that shit would be on in the background. I didn’t understand it.

[u/Unlucky_Clover → u/Former-Lab-9451]

Let him debate an empty podium, look like a weird dementia candidate, and Kamala can debate a stand in like Alec Baldwin but use only Trump’s quotes against him instead of a parody with fake answers. And make a long running joke about him refusing to be there while actually addressing what he said and giving the right response.

[u/Capt_ElastiPants → u/Unlucky_Clover]

Tina Fey did this with her Sarah palin impression and it was brutal

[u/EthelMaePotterMertz → u/Former-Lab-9451]

Fox News has also been ruled legally to not be news but entertainment, so it's completely inappropriate. It's equivalent to having the debate moderated by Comedy Central.

[u/bdonaldo]

I cannot stress this enough: put her up there next to an empty podium.

Trump is doing everything he can to convince people the debate has simply been switched from ABC to Fox, and it is imperative that viewers understand that this is him being a coward.

[u/kyleb402 → u/bdonaldo]

The media is doing a terrible job communicating this reality.

They're really just reporting it as Trump agreeing to a Fox News debate and Harris declining.

So people are pretty much being told the exact opposite of what is actually happening.

[u/heyutheresee → u/kyleb402]

Fuck the moneystream media

[u/GatoLibre → u/bdonaldo]

Ossoff did this to Perdue and Georgia went Blue.

[u/asetniop]

Reminder: Trump agreed to debate any candidate that was polling above 15% on ABC. He's a coward for failing to live up to his agreement and trying to retreat to his safe space of Fox News.

[u/galaxy_horse → u/asetniop]

“The polls are fake news!” - something a fucking weirdo would say

[u/HRSCHD → u/galaxy_horse]

But they're totally legit if he's winning

[u/localistand]

It's striking and kinda pathetic how much of this is retreads of 2020 election strategy by Trump. Remember when Trump refused to do a town hall with Biden and went and got floor-mopped by the Today show host Savannah Guthrie? The two events were simultaneous, and Biden answered all the socially-distanced questions by himself.

[u/Kattz → u/localistand]

Trumps so narcissistic and controlling that I'm sure he has people around him trying to steer his strategy to something different from 2016 n 2020, but Cheeto is so old and stuck in his way I'm sure in his mind "what worked the first time will always work for me"

[u/Jackinapox]

Keep on course! If Trump can debate on the 4th, he can debate on the 10th. It's time for him to put up or shut up.

[u/oftenevil → u/Jackinapox]

He’s too much of a coward.

[u/honeytoke → u/oftenevil]

I'm hearing a lot of people say it. Everyone seems to know he's afraid.

[u/oftenevil → u/honeytoke]

Did you see his sit down interview w/ Ingram? She asked him point blank, “Why not debate her?” and his response was literally, “Why should I?”

It’s not even an opinion to say he’s afraid; everyone sees it yet the crazies on the right are stuck in delulu land.

[u/medievalmachine → u/Jackinapox]

He never follows through or shuts up. That’s his whole thing. No wall, they don’t care. Tried to overthrow an election, they don’t care. Cuts his own taxes as a billionaire, they don’t care. Never reformed heath care, they don’t care.

[u/bluegrassgazer → u/medievalmachine]

Couldn't pass an infrastructure deal. They don't care. He never completed the wall. They don't care. Schumer offered him both - he gets wall funding if Dems get infrastructure - and he turned that down because he couldn't allow anything to make the Dems look competent. THEY DON'T CARE.

[u/Collecting_Cans → u/Jackinapox]

“We should be asking ourselves why a candidate for the US presidency won’t agree to a debate that is fact-checked. But I think we know the answer.”

[u/AnAutisticGuy]

That's the way you do it. It's not Kamala's fault if Trump is too old and weird to attend an prescheduled debate.

[u/Dianneis → u/AnAutisticGuy]

Give the man a break. He's obviously scared.

[u/I0I0I0I → u/Dianneis]

He's pooping his pants.

[u/oftenevil → u/I0I0I0I]

He already did that last debate.

[u/Road_Whorrior → u/oftenevil]

And in court.

[u/Ok-Tourist-511 → u/I0I0I0I]

Depends

[u/Jellyandjiggles]

Please let him go on Fox and ramble about Hannibal lector. It’s almost better this way. I can’t wait to see Jesse Waters, judge Jeanine and the rest of the gang try to spin it.

[u/SewAlone → u/Jellyandjiggles]

Exactly. It will just be another one of his deranged and unhinged hate rallies. No one cares.

[u/SomewhereNo8378 → u/SewAlone]

Because they are boring. Been there, heard that.

[u/Dr_Hannibal_Lecter → u/Jellyandjiggles]

It is an odd fixation of his, isn't it?

[u/xtrahairyyeti → u/Jellyandjiggles]

as was said in another thread, the Republican cinematic universe

[u/CrotchoMan]

You’ve gotta be the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics to see Donald Trump as anything but a panicking coward.

[u/peopleslobby]

The NABJ interview has absolutely shaken him. Chickenshit.

[u/patio-garden → u/peopleslobby]

I legit don't think he understands 

1. That he's racist 
2. Why what he said was racist
3. Why he looks bad because he's being racist
4. Why racism is bad.

Let's keep calling him weird and cowardly, because he can understand those words. 

[u/VidProphet123]

If he doesn’t show up then she can basically just give a solo speech to 100million Americans on primetime. Win win.

[u/panic_the_digital → u/VidProphet123]

If I were her I would just show clips of him say wild shit and just popping off on it. Would be glorious

[u/PluotFinnegan_IV → u/panic_the_digital]

Assuming Trump goes on Fox alone and gives another hour long campaign speech, I wonder if Kamala's team could take that speech, cut it down to some commercial-sized chunks, then refute them one by one, and tie it all back to a central theme of "Donald lies, he will say whatever he thinks is beneficial to you, but here's what he does..." then go off on all the things he did in his life to fuck the little guy.

[u/Kattz → u/PluotFinnegan_IV]

They could have harris watch these clips from sept 4 and just "debate" him that way. Shows a clip, refutes it without his interruptions and gives her piece on the subject.

But her debating an empty podium will be fuckin awesome

[u/ja-mez → u/panic_the_digital]

Recruit the Daily Show staff. They could roll out a banger

[u/kurtist04 → u/VidProphet123]

I would rather they continue to ask him questions as if he were there, then cut to an empty podium. Then Kamala can answer instead.

Or put the Trump Muppet from sesame street there and have him answer the questions. That would be gold.

[u/Cyndakill88]

Trump agreed to debate on that date it’s weird he’s backing out

[u/asetniop → u/Cyndakill88]

He agreed to debate anyone who is polling above 15%. And last time I checked, Vice President Harris is polling well above that.

[u/Prestigious-Car-4877 → u/asetniop]

Ohhh, I get it now. Trump is saying all those weird creepy racist biggotehd things to try to drive his polling below 15% so he doesn't have to debate anybody!

[u/D0nCoyote]

Convicted Felon Trump is trying to label this as a cancelled debate to save face and not look like a coward. Make it widely known that the debate was not cancelled. He backed out.

EDIT: Typo

[u/BNsucks]

Good for her! Kamala needs to show the public what kind of coward Trump really is. Don't let him change, dictate, or control the conditions of the debate.

Trump has already agreed to the ABC debate, and if he chooses to not show up, then he'll be in breach of that agreement, which I'm sure he couldn't care less. He's a shameless punk/coward.

[u/kilonark]

Trump is a coward and a traitor, and his supporters are miserable little parasites.

[u/lordlordie1992 → u/kilonark]

Not to mention weird af!

[u/phono_trigger → u/lordlordie1992]

The weird thing is a meme now but dude they actually are.

I see more and more of their stupid 1776 and political stickers and oh god those cringe graphic t-shirts. I even see republican tattoos. These people really are weird.

[u/lordlordie1992 → u/phono_trigger]

Well, when you dedicate your entire life and livelihood to a political fascist, you're weird.

We should have known back in 2015/16, but now, it's undeniable.

[u/Raymond_Reddit_Ton]

LOVE THIS. Total Power Move. If Trump doesn’t want to show, let it be an excellent platform for Kamala to rally.

[u/meyou2222]

Which of course is why Trump is doing this stunt of pretending Harris agreed to a FoxNews debate the week before. He will show up to debate an empty podium, and the week later will act like Harris is copying him.

[u/Iwantmy3rdpartyapp]

This is genius. She should say, "It's either gonna be us debating for an hour, or me talking about what a coward you are for an hour. Your choice."

[u/av1998]

This is the way, ridicule him, taunt him. Laugh AT HIM.

The passive, diplomatic, taking the high road way NEVER worked against a bully.

[u/bettsboy]

Trump would rather have a lie-a-thon on Fox News than stand in front of America with a successful litigator and get fact-slapped

[u/gasahold]

"You see that chicken sitting on that chair over there? That's Trump."

[u/AreYouDoneNow]

My only concern about this is it ending up like the whole Clint Eastwood interviewing an empty chair debacle.

It might seem clever to debate nobody but the distilled rhetoric that results can be nasty.

However, the Harris campaign so far has proven to be shrewd and capable. If it can be done, I believe they'll do it, but this is a risky strategy.

Of utmost importance, of course, is pointing out how utterly weird and cowardly for Trump to be the first ever presidential candidate to be too scared shitless to debate.

[u/MrGerb1k → u/AreYouDoneNow]

I think as long as she’s not having full-blown conversations with an empty podium, it’ll be fine (outside of a joke about Trump backing out here and there).

[u/kiltedturtle]

It's weird that he would agree to back to back debates.

Even if Mayor Pete isn't the VP candidate they should send him to Faux, since he speaks at their level. I love how he just waits for the talking heads to get done and then calmly sets the record straight. He even copes with the "yelling across" he just waits, and picks up where he left off. It's super frustrating to them to see him just deal with it.

[u/mancusjo1 → u/kiltedturtle]

Yeah he’d crush a Fox audience. No matter what. He talks to them like he’s teaching a 7 year old. But really teaching not arguing. I wouldn’t debate him.